In today’s episode I talk to Grahame Gardner.
He is one of the most respected dowsers in the UK and internationally. He is a professional member and registered tutor of The British Society of Dowsers and served as President of the Society from 2008-2014.
He has written numerous articles for the society’s journal ‘Dowsing Today’, produces an award-winning podcast ‘Adventures in Dowsing’; and in 2014 was awarded the BSD Award for exceptional services to dowsing and the Society. His first book, ‘Dowsing Magic’, was published in 2012.
Grahame is also a member of the Canadian and American dowsing societies, and has presented internationally at conferences in Canada, USA, Portugal, Italy and Japan.
He is a founding partner (with Susan Collins) of International Dowsers.org, offering global dowsing solutions; and a founder member of The Geomancy Group. He has two published books, ‘Dowsing Magic‘ and ‘A Basic Guide to Technopathic Stress‘.
In the episode we learn
- What is dowsing and how it can be helpful in your life
- What dowsing can be used for
- We walk through a simple beginners tutorial to get started today
- What questions to ask your pendulum
- How to learn more about dowsing if you think it may be for you
- How dowsing can be used to clear bad energy from your house
Graham’s site WesternGeomancy.orgDownload Grahame’s Free Get Started Guide to Dowsing
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Quotes from the interview.
Prefer to read the shownotes? Here they are
Today I talk to Grahame Gardner, he is one of the most respected dowsers in the UK and internationally. Grahame is a professional member and registered tutor of the British society of dowsers, and served as president of the society from 2008 to 2014, he has written numerous articles for the society’s journal Dowsing Today. He produces a winning podcast, Adventures in Dowsing and in 2014 was awarded the prestigious BSD award for exceptional service to dowsing and the society.
Grahame is also a member of the Canadian American Dowsing Societies and he has presented internationally at conferences worldwide. He is a founding partner along with Susan Collins of International Dowsers offering global dowsing solutions and he has published two books, Dowsing magic, a Beginners’ Guide to Dowsing and a Basic Guide to Technopathic Stress. We will be covering technopathic stress in another podcast. He can be found on his website, Westerngeomancy.org. We will talk about how he got started in his profession, how he helps people heal their houses. He explains what dousing sis and how we can get started ourselves with a simple pendulum and how we can incorporate dousing into our lives. Now let’s hear what he has to say.
JUDY – Hi Grahame, thanks for being on the show, its brilliant to talk to you today. I can’t wait to ask you about dowsing.
GRAHAME – You are very welcome Judy glad to be here.
JUDY – As you know this is a podcast about teaching people how they can transform in their lives and change everyday habits that they do. Would you like to explain something about exactly what you do? What is your job?
GRAHAME -I describe myself as a dowser and a geomancer. Most people who don’t know what geomancing is, the easiest explanation for it is for me to say it’s like western Feng shui, sort of applied dowsing. Dowsing is a very great tool for everyone to use in their everyday life. Most people might think of dowsing as finding water, the typical image of the man in the tweed trousers walking across the field with the fork twig. But dowsing is just used for all sorts of things, such as finding water and utilities like pipes, cables that sort of thing. You can use it for enhancing your decision making in everyday life. It really connects you with your intuition, so it’s very good for that sort of stuff, I use it daily, I can use it when I’m driving, if I don’t know the way I’m going I can use a little device-less dowsing with my thumbs when I’m driving just to see where I’m going. I can use it for foods, often in restaurants I have my pendulum to see if the food is going to give me any problems and particularly in pubs I struggle with a lot of beers they trigger an allergic reaction in me so I have to dowse the beer before I drink it.
JUDY – yes you told me a lot of what dowsing does and how would you apply that to your job then, what would you actually be doing with the dowsing because I guess you are not dowsing beer in your job.
GRAHAME – no, well mainly the work I do, well the work that pays the money is house healing, so I will be looking at the Earth Energy situation at the house and assessing the place for geopathic stress. This is a fairly well known phenomenon where sleeping over certain conditions of energies can lead to illness. So if your bed is positioned over a water line, this is natural water flowing deep in the earth. There is a distortion of some sort, and its either in the magnetic field or as a slight increase in the background radiation and spending a long time over that creates illness in the body. So most of my work is going in, dowsing the houses to see where this energy flows are and then either we move the bed or we try and do something to screen it or move the line or block it or something like that.
JUDY -so how will I know if I actually needed to call you out?
GRAHAME -well I get quite a lot of referrals from Homeopaths and Vibrational workers will actually test for geopathic stress. So one in particular, he gives me quite a bit of referrals, but it’s really good to be working with somebody like that because when I’ve been to the house and sorted out the problems, the client will then go back to the Homeopath and they will test them again, so we will see if my work has been effective or not. So it’s really valuable to have that kind of working relationship.
JUDY -yes, so what drew you to start getting into dowsing?
GRAHAME -I taught myself when I was in my late teens, this is some time ago now. But I was reading quite a lot about all the sort of New Age scene and it was really exploding at that point. There was a lot of books coming out like John Michelle’s ‘View over Atlantis’ and stuff like this. I read quite a bit of books on dowsing and the one that really resonated with me was, ‘Needles of Stone’ by Tom Graves. This is really pulling together a lot of things like in the scene was this concept of standing stones, stones circles, lay lines and all this. So that really inspired me and I went and got a pair of wire coat hangers and made a pair of L rods and went and practiced and taught myself to the extent I was satisfied, I was actually dowsing something.
JUDY -so did you go out on your own to do that or did you take a course in it?
GRAHAME -no initially I went on my own, I went to a roman fort near Glasgow and there’s a well there near the top of a hill and so I was dowsing around the well and so, until I found the the water line that it was sitting on and dowsing around the rest of the fort. I followed this water line and on the other side of the hill was a roman bath house and it just went straight through it.
So I kind of convinced myself that I was onto something and I then practiced pendulum dowsing, which is the basic divinatory technique with dowsing which is asking yes or no questions. I then used that for many years, I do tarot readings and the pendulum is quite useful in tarot readings in identifying significant cards, that kind of thing, but I didn’t think I was going to be a water dowser, I didn’t see much of a career in that at the time so I went into my day job which was working in theatre which was my main career. This is a very typical story of most people actually because most people will try dowsing and then not do anything with it until later in life, when they have more time, when the career has been breasted and the kids have grown up.
So it was only in 1999 when I met some of the dowers from the British Society of Dowsers, that I realised I was actually quite good at this dowsing thing and this earth energy dowsing really resonated with me. Because I had always been interested in going to ancient sites, churches and things and suddenly I discovered all these earth images were connected with these so, I said hey, that’s what you do with this.
So I joined the Society and about three four years later I became a trustee and about four years after that I find myself elected as President, so dowsing really does change your life in many ways.
JUDY -wow so maybe it will change mine then. Is it because I am getting older that I have suddenly got into it? Is that why?
GRAHAME -I think it is, I guess yes. It’s very difficult, I mean the membership demographic in most dowsing societies is towards the elderly end of the spectrum.
JUDY -I did notice that in the course that I took actually, I was one of the youngest at 47.
GRAHAME -yes, well I think it’s just who people are, they have busy lives, they are raising kids, trying to get ahead on the job. That’s what why when things get a little bit more settled they actually start to ask questions about, well this is all good and well but there must be more to life.
JUDY -and that had definitely been one for the inspirations for the podcast. I definitely started asking more about life, because I have always been into Archaeology and Stone Circles and things like that. But on a hobby basis, I never actually thought that I would be doing a podcast about it but this is great, this is brilliant. I can spend all day talking about things that are fun.
GRAHAME -dowsing really does open door and it does change your life.
JUDY -I wanted to ask you a few questions about your dowsing experience. What would be for example one of the big successes you’ve had when dowsing?
GRAHAME – one of the big successes I had, well its one of quite a few actually and its quite satisfying when you have a client who visits the Homeopath and you get confirmation from them that your work has bene successful.
I mean I have done so many things, I also do a quite a bit of water dowsing and I had one a while ago where I was dowsing a heat pump. It’s the first time I tried that actually, it was a geothermal heat pump. They want to realise more water source from the ground which enhances the heat exchange from the pipes. I don’t know the technical details, but I had dowsed them exactly how I would dowse for the water well and the driller wasn’t very happy with it because he dowsed to the depth I said the first depth of water was, so I was very pleased with that, but he said it was too much water! So he wanted to put it right next to the house which I didn’t think was a very good idea, so I then modified the question, with the driller and the client there to say ok what is the most suitable position to drill to satisfy both these people here. There was another position it was about 20 feet away, the driller was also complaining because the rock was too fractured and the water was coming up.
JUDY -was this in Scotland by any chance?
GRAHAME -this was in Scotland yes. So the second position anyway, so he went down, he was getting this fractured rock again, but it wasn’t as bad, so he persevered and keep going and after that it went right down to 120 meters. It was no problem, he put the pipe in with absolutely no problem and he said oh that was easy. So I was really pleased with that.
JUDY -I have never thought of dowsing for geothermic energy pumps, so that was not what I imagined when I thought of dowsing.
GRAHAME -often you get the successes are almost there but not quite. There’s another water story I can tell you.
JUDY -oh carry on, you have to tell stories I love to hear them
GRAHAME -it was another client I had, this was an extension they built onto the house, it was big townhouse and there was an indoor swimming pool. It was all clay lined to make it waterproof and everything, but the architect found there was an underground water flow that was coming to the surface at the side of the pool which is where they had the walkway with the tiles.
So because it was on a slight slope going down there, the side of the pool, this was like leaking out of the stairs, half way down and he was convinced it wasn’t the pool that was doing it which it wasn’t. So we had to put a pump in at the bottom to deal with the amount of water that was coming up. So I said well ok, we can try moving this. This is something that a few water dowsers have developed over the years, again I have tried it before but it involved putting a metal stake where the water is and you hit it in the direction the water wants to go. So I thought ok we will try this, so I went out and I had to tested the water as best I could using colour charts and dowsing to see if I had some sort of specific signature on the water, I went into the back yard and I was dowsing the water underground there until I found what I thought was the same line, so I moved it, bashed it (the rod) and asked it nicely to move and I spent about 20 minutes half an hour there and sure enough it seemed to be moving. Now the architect was completely gob smacked at this. He said but how can this could be possible at all, I said I think in a couple of days this will be alright, however it was too much for him and he couldn’t accept it. So the next day he actually just dug down and then put a barrier in where I dowsed the water line so that could have been a success.
JUDY -this is the problem with dowsing, is that people believe in science, they don’t necessarily believe in something that has no scientific proof, just kind of testimonials from people that it has been successful.
GRAHAME -well that’s fairly advanced, that’s the concept that you can actually move a water line, there are numerous cases of that in particular with American dowsers, where they can move the waterline out of a cellar so it’s not flooding, they can dowse out a water line into a well that has gone dry. There are numerously documented cases for that happening.
JUDY – yes that is particularly what I am interested in and that is why I want to present the listeners with things that they haven’t thought about doing, but which will actually be helpful to them. So that’s one of the examples you can say, for example if you are building an extension, you can get somebody to dowse it to work out waters underneath it for example because that will help in the construction. Is there other example that they can use it in their everyday lives?
GRAHAME -yes, the most important thing is to get the practice in dowsing, so when you first start with your pendulum just use it all the time. Use it to dowse your foods in restaurants to see if you have an intolerance of any particular items, it’s all good practice in asking a question, but the thing about using pendulum for divination is that a lot of people use a pendulum and not thing of it as dowsing. You find a lot of therapist will use it, you find things like florescence or homeopathy sometimes. I have even have a GP who would use a pendulum sometimes to prescribe things, so those numerous applications, it’s just a question of doing it and getting into the habit for doing it all the time.
JUDY -well I think that I didn’t associate before I did this podcast, I didn’t associate dowsing and pendulums in the same thing really, I didn’t understand that they were actually the same thing, I thought that they were two separate things, actually on the website I have classified them as two separate things but they are the same thing. There are different levels of dowsing. There is the beginner level where you would just use it to kind of guide you in the choices that you make. And it seems to me there there is a more advanced dowsing which would be something that you would need an expert for, so there are levels of this it looks like.
GRAHAME -it is, especially against the esoteric areas of dowsing, some of the things I come across, you have to get into light spirit release, entity removal that sort of thing. So yes, it does get quite advanced.
JUDY -now, while you are on the subject of that, I am going to stop you right there because when you say spirits and energy release, I have actually had some people say to me you shouldn’t really be talking about dowsing, it’s scary, you shouldn’t be using it. What have you got to say to people who would say that?
GRAHAME -alright, this is a quite a common thing particularly among extreme religious Christians, because I think this goes back to the Inquisition when dowsing was actually banned, it was known as a tool of the Devil. Some of the best dowsers, have actually been priests in France, a lot of priests were very good dowsers and really advanced the art in the early 20th Century. If you look at the Bible, the story of Moses, Moses was a dowser. He was told by God to go out with his staff and follow his shaft to find water, so that’s dowsing.
JUDY -so there isn’t actually any conflict really, there shouldn’t be any conflict and what about the spirit work that you are talking about, I would imagine that a beginner in the realms of dowsing wouldn’t go out there and confront spirits. So would you consider that to be advanced dowsing?
GRAHAME -yes that is very advanced really. In the courses that I teach which is the British Society of Dowsers, that’s like a level three or level four course when you get into doing that. Generally, you are not going to get exposed to these sort of things as a beginner, you tend to come across the stuff that you are ready to deal with, but the more advanced you get the heavier these things start to get.
JUDY -so as I start on the path to learn dowsing, so we will get to how to start that in a few minutes. But could I as a beginner get sucked into that by mistake, or is it not going to come into my path because I am a beginner?
GRAHAME -will if you actually go out and seek it, then yes off course you will come across it, you get a lot of people who do spiritualist stuff like, mediumship and ouija boards and stuff and they are not prepared for it. You really need to have a fairly advanced spiritual regimen and a lot of meditation and spiritual practice before you can be confident that doing this works. I mean the good thing about dowsing is that by focusing on the tool, whether a pendulum or a bobber or whatever it is that you are using. But by focusing on the tool you are keeping one foot in the real world as it were, so you are not going into a deep trance like the medium or a channeler person would do, the pendulum does keep you focused so it is in itself kind of an inbuilt protection, but that doesn’t say you are not going to come across some dangerous stuff so you need to be careful.
JUDY -ok, so it sounds to me like it would be a good idea to go on a course or something to start with.
GRAHAME -yes definitely I would recommend you go on a course, so much you can learn by yourself, it took 20 years before I found professional dowsers and realised, oh that is what I can do. There is no substitute for going out with a group, so I would join your National Society, the National Society of Dowsers, the American, the Canadians or whatever you are, try and find a local group too and go along to the meetings and try and find other dowsers. It’s just such a relief being with people who don’t think you are weird.
JUDY -it’s not weird, I’m interested in it and I am totally not weird. So let’s go into some of the things you can go into to start learning dowsing, because Grahame very kindly provided us with the pdf Guide to Getting Started with Dowsing that I will put in the show notes, which by the way will be available on SpirituallyCurious.com/episode1.
So having provided the getting started guide that people can download. Ok so I have got it, I’ve got it in my hand. What would be the starting point for starting off learning?
GRAHAME -well the starting point will be to get your pendulum and to learn what your pendulum reactions are and just trying to program your yes and no reactions.
Some people think the pendulum, has to be an amethyst, quartz or whatever but that’s that nonsense. My first pendulum was a nut and a piece of thread, it can be anything, just a weight on a string, a necklace even, whatever you have that makes a nice swing and you need to establish what your primary responses are which is basically yes or no. Everything in dowsing has to be framed in a yes no, black white, positive negative, binary reactions. So a lot of people once they start with the pendulum they will hang the pendulum motionless and wait for it to move, which it will do eventually but this is very time consuming, so it’s much quicker to give the pendulum some impetus.
So you will hold the pendulum between your thumb and your fore finger with your finger pointing downwards, so you have a minimal point of contact with the string or the chain and just swing it about and find a good length for the chain, usually two to three inches is good, any longer than that it starts being a bit slow to react. You start swinging it away from you and towards you. Just let it swing like that and this is a natural position. When it is swinging like that you then say ok, show me my yes response and the pendulum should then make a response. For most people it will go clockwise, but not necessarily, it might do something else for you. It doesn’t really matter just put it back into the neutral search position and say show me my yes response and just keep doing this until you are confident that the pendulum is moving of it’s own accord. It’s not of course, it’s you that is making it move, its these subconscious muscle reactions in your fingers that cause it to move.
JUDY -yes that was actually one of my questions, is what is making this move because when you watch somebody do this and I have done it myself, I can attest to the fact that if I say show me the yes, it does actually go to the right, but if somebody was watching me they would actually say, hang on you are moving it. You are literally moving it yourself.
GRAHAME -yes, well I get that a lot, especially as you are a more advanced dowser, your reaction becomes more relaxed so your hand is moving and your wrist is moving so this is something that a lot of sceptics will say oh well, it’s your wrist which is your subconscious making the muscles react. What interesting is where is your subconscious is getting the information from.
JUDY -exactly so how will I know what is actually causing it. You are saying that something coming up from the earth is vibrating into your body which is giving you the answer and it does seem quite impossible.
GRAHAME -yes, it does
S – I can attest to the fact that it works because I have tried it and I did go on a course to actually learn the pendulum. I am a beginner but I have actually been on a course and it is quite amazing how when we went across the water source it did start turning to the right, I have no explanation for that. I assumed that the water in my body, being 80 percent water was actually channelling the water that was under my feet.
GRAHAME -yes, it does help if you are dowsing from water, if you have a drink of water just to make sure you are hydrated. I mean there are lots of little superstitions and rituals people do to enhance their dowsing. Some people like to hold a bottle of water if they are dowsing for water or have a little vile of water taped to the end of the rods if they are dowsing for water. There are all little sorts of reinforcements and things like this that people do but ultimately, it’s your intention, it’s your mind that is causing the reaction. Your body is picking it up, your subconscious is translating the signal and your muscles are making the pendulum move.
JUDY -so if I was somebody let’s say resistant to the pendulum or the rods. Does that mean it will be impossible for me to find water?
GRAHAME -well yes, if you are sceptical about it working then it’s not going to work for you no matter how hard you try. You really need to be open to the idea that this can work. This is the main problem and when you start dowsing its actually convincing yourself that the reaction is happening and you are not making it move deliberately. It does take practice so you do have to keep practicing quite hard to get it to the point where you know it is definitely now you that’s doing it.
JUDY -so I have been on YouTube and I have been looking at different videos to do with pendulums to see if I can learn from that, and there seem to be lots of people employing different particular techniques that you must cleanse your pendulum, you must keep your feet on the ground or it won’t work, do you believe any of that?
GRAHAME -I don’t believe anything; I am very sceptical about everything in dowsing which is a very healthy attitude to have. People do have a lot of these superstitions and rituals that they go through and if it works for them that’s fine but it is really not needed. There is no magic in the pendulum itself, it is you it is your body that is picking up the response, that’s where the dowsing response is, the pendulum or the rods or whatever tools you are using is only amplifying that response so that you can see it. So sitting with both feet in the ground, I mean yes it is good if you are sitting with both feet on the ground, just to be relaxed really, so that your body is in a relaxed pose more than anything else.
JUDY -what will I move on to ask in terms of questions, I have got my yes response I have got my no response. Where do I go from there in terms of questions?
GRAHAME -sure yes, we have got a yes response, the no response is the opposite of that, in my case it anti clockwise, some people it goes side to side, some people it doesn’t move at all for no. As long as you are happy with your own response for yes and no, that is the main thing and it will always be your responses and it won’t change for you. I mean actually some people will actually test the yes and no responses of every pendulum they pick up which might think is necessary. Some people might test their yes or no responses every day, because they say its reverse, the phase of the moon and stuff. Again, I don’t think it happens, I just think it superstition, it’s such an internal thing dowsing, it’s an internal response, so we have to accept that it doesn’t always work. There are days when you are just not suitable for dowsing because you are tired or you are dehydrated and it’s just not going to work for you. This is why science I think, has such trouble getting a handle on it because it is such an internal thing and it is related to consciousness, so in a strong way as a very individual thing, so there is no real universal dowsing code that we can say applies to everybody, everybody is slightly different, it is a very personal thing.
JUDY -it seems to be more of an art than a science, it’s definitely connected through consciousness. So I trying to get to the point of finding out good questions. What would be a question that I couldn’t ask my pendulum will be a bad question to ask it?
GRAHAME -well it’s all about how you phrase the question, for example you are in a restaurant and you are dowsing a meal, you can get your pendulum to say, is this food bad for me? Now that Is not a very precise question so how are you going to know what the answer is, you would have to say is my system intolerant of this steak or whatever. You have to try and isolate it, often the pendulum will tell you if you are asking the question, like for me if the pendulum continues in the circular position going backwards and forwards that means that it can’t answer that question, ask something else, for me if it goes from side to side, again that means I’m not making sense, the question is irrelevant or its not making sense. Sometimes I get one where it goes slightly diagonally to the right or to the left and that’s a yes maybe or a no maybe. So I’m kind of getting there but I need to rephrase the question a little bit, so you get all these kinds of refinement the more you do it.
JUDY -so I know when we were talking about what you can use the pendulum for the house healing, you can use it for decision making, I know that I have heard dowsing being used for map dowsing and archaeology things like that. What would be a good example of when you use dowsing for things like that for using a map for example which I have heard about but I have no idea of how it would actually work.
GRAHAME -yes, this is one of the main things science can’t really get the handle on is the fact that you can sit down with a map of a property or an area and dowse with your pendulum on that and it find that water or whatever. I mean I do that when I am house healing, I always ask for a plan of the house and I can sit down and dowse on that and it saves a lot of time on site especially if you are dowsing for water on a big farm which can be many acres, having a chance to dowse the map before really narrows the area you have to cover. But again you have to come up with a sort of concept of the information field say that you and your subconscious at some level is connected to all these other areas, so you can access anytime any place just by using your dowsing.
JUDY -so it is something you can do remotely; you don’t actually have to be in the area to do the full dowsing or do you have to eventually go to the field to actually stand in it to do it properly.
GRAHAME -different dowsers have different techniques, some people just do map dowsing and remote work. They would actually send their intension while they are doing that. It’s possible like I know of a few cases from the United States and I know of a case, I can go and visit that. So I can do remote healing that way, so a lot of people do work that way. Usually I like to go and visit because there are so many other things that you might miss having the map you don’t know the area. There might be other things there that are causing problems that you need to see.
JUDY -from what I am understanding from the house healing as well, if you are not actually on the ground in those walls, it would be difficult to pick up on the atmosphere I would imagine.
GRAHAME -well most dowsers have some sort of check list that they will go through, I have a two or three-page check list I dowse through, just to see some of the things that come up and this is something that is extended the more you do it the more things you come across you have another box that you have to tick. So you can do that yourself remotely but there are always some things you need to do and check. One of the other things I check for is electro-magnetic fields, things like phone towers, phone masts, microwaves, Wi-Fi causes problems for some people, so you can’t always see the local situation, there might be a phone box next door that is causing problems that you can’t see from the map, that sort of thing.
JUDY -so when you are going into houses and you are doing that work, what is actually the process you go through. You got your check list, you go through that before you arrive there, you then arrive at the house. What do you then actually do?
GRAHAME -well you sit down with a client with a cup of tea. You discuss the issues and what their concerns are trying to narrow down what the problem is. Usually when I am doing this I got my pendulum going so if there is any particular issue that you need to focus on, the pendulum usually reacts at the point when the client is talking to you. So once I have done that then I know where I have to focus my work. I then do sort of EMF surveys. This is very logical scientific side of the job so I have professional meters and stuff like that.
JUDY -can I just ask what the EMF survey is?
GRAHAME -electromagnetic fields. So technopathic stress we call it as oppose to geopathic stress. The symptoms caused by this are so similar to geopathic stress. Like people not sleeping getting depressed, having ME is another common one with microwaves, so I have to sort of get down to that before I get into the geopathic stress. So I will do the survey for that, if there is anything causing problems like the Wi-Fi, I would usually switch off, the cordless phones I will switch off before I do the dowsing. Then I would dowse the property and we would look for underground water and energy leads and other things like portals vortexes, as I say there is a check list I go through.
JUDY -I would love to know more about portals and vortexes but I’m afraid that’s another podcast.
GRAHAME -yes that would be another at least one more podcast.
JUDY -yes, advanced dowsing
GRAHAME -energy leads, I had a conversation about just the other day actually with somebody, so that might be good just to reinforce the idea. I will get back on it.
S – we will do more advanced dowsing, but I am at beginner level right now, don’t throw things that I can’t understand.
GRAHAME -alright sorry, energy leads, so a lot of people talk about lay lines and this is the idea. It’s actually a bad term to use lay lines because it kind of a tautology, lay and then line means straight. So it’s straight, but the original concept of lays that was really publicized well by Alfred Watkins back in the 1920s or 30s, was the idea of an alignment or ancient sites. So give me a stone circle, a standing stone and these sites have been reused over the years so now it might be a church tower, could be a moat even a crossroads, so is the concept where you have 4 or 5 of these within a few miles and it’s a visual alignment. That’s the original concept of lays, over the years through the whole Earth Mysteries scene you got this talk of split lines and energy flows along these lines and it all got a bit muddied. So the concept that most dowsers work from is that you have these visual leads, the Alfred Watkins ones and then you have the energy lays and these are like if you think of water is like the Ying side of energies. It’s nice and feminine receptive energy. And the energy lay is like the Yang, the masculine. So in a geopathic stress situation, the water is very draining, it’s very Ying, so that kind of drains your immune system if you are spending a long time on top of it like sleeping on a water line. But an energy lay is the expresso coffee if you like. It gives you energy so again, you can’t sleep on it but for the opposite reason.
JUDY -so what will happen if two of those cross then?
GRAHAME -well a water line or particularly rising water, there is a water called the blind spring where water is rising to the surface but not coming out and then often you find these lay line will stop and finish at these line springs and they what we call a Power centre in geomancy so you will find these in stone circles, a lot of ancient sites, you will find them just in front of the alter in churches, pre Reformation churches this is you won’t get them in modern churches because they have kind of lost the knowledge of how to do that. This is what energises the space, this is a Power centre you have a balance of the male and the female.
JUDY -are you actually saying then churches when they were built originally, were built on these deliberately in these places?
GRAHAME -yes all churches would have had dowsers dowse them.
GRAHAME -oh well the actual course that I went on is in Clairefontaine Abbey in Belgium, it’s a water source kind of like Lourdes and that was very interesting to see the energy of that place because that is where we were dowsing and there was water all around. But some areas were stronger than others so it was actually a really interesting place to go on a course.
GRAHAME -well dowsers, getting a bit advanced in here, but I would just give you a bit of theory on water dowsing. Dowsers like to look for this thing that we call primary water and this is water that is not part of the normal hydrological cycle. Like falling out of the sky and evaporating, this is water that had formed deep within the earth’s crust under great heat and pressure and is forced up under pressure. It is a very energetic it’s very spiritual water. And so we have this phenomenon of this coming up as a blind spring but it’s not getting up to the surface because there is a layer of rock or something, it spreads out almost like the spokes on a wheel in different directions. This is where you get the really energetic water.
S – So if I’m going to be buying a house I need to be paying attention to this as well and there might be another reason why this might be interesting to people because I won’t want to be buying a house in either bad geopathic area or I might want to be looking for a house in sort of an energizing area, right?
GRAHAME -yes, so if you are building something like a temple or a church or a healing centre you might want this sort of energy and it’s good to have an energy lay in a space that you are working in if you are an artist or a creative person. It’s not good to have it in your bedroom, so different combinations are better for different things. There are some places in Austria, I think some catons in Austria you still need to have a dowsing survey done for you before you can build.
JUDY -so it’s like there is very much more to dowsing than I actually realized, I was basically concentrating on the pendulum for guidance but there seems to be so much more in it than I actually realized. I will have to explore this a little bit further I think. So what would be your advice for somebody who wanted to get started. We got our pendulum, we can download the guide we can give you the go at our house, you said you can go on a course. Where can you go and actually find courses?
GRAHAME -well look at your local dowsing society see if they got any courses going on. The BSD in Britain has regular courses going on, I actually got a course coming up on the 9th and 10th of April in Scoon, so you can look at my website to find out details of that, and yes, just check your local dowsing group often they will have dowsing deals where you can go and use the rods and other tools.
JUDY -yes, as well so if a listener feels the need to, for example they are not sleeping or if they have got some sort of illness that they think might be linked to their house, it would be a good idea to give you a call or something to fill you in, have a look at it and you don’t actually have to go to their house to be able to do that.
GRAHAME -yes, I mean as I said I do prefer to go out there to do an onsite visit but it is possible to do a lot of healing work remotely.
JUDY -well that’s really really good to know. So what does 2016 got for you because I know that you are doing some international traveling.
GRAHAME -yes international dowsers, last year was quite good as well, I had workshops I was running in Portugal and America at the American convention and Japan actually. So this year in March I have a convention in Bologna Italy for the Italian society of Radionics then we are going to the American Society of Dowers West Coast Convention in Santa Cruz in July so I’m pretty excited to be doing that.
JUDY -yes so what are you going to be talking about in Santa Cruz?
GRAHAME -Santa Cruz I got two talks and a full day workshop. I think one of the talks is on Geobiology and my Technopathic stress which looks at ways to make sure your home is healthy and ways to deal with your microwave and your Wi-Fi and stuff. And other stuff about lighting and the best choice of beds, that kind of thing. The other one I’m doing is about creating sacred space and that’s also the four-day workshop is on creating sacred space so I would be like how to create your own temple space or stone circle or labyrinth or whatever.
JUDY -well I think I would like to go on both of those actually. Well Grahame it has been absolutely fascinating, thank you so much for coming on the show. I would put a link to Getting started with your Pendulum guide in the show notes which will be on spirituallycurious.com/episode1. If people want to get in touch with you where can they find you.
GRAHAME -well my website is Westerngeomancy.org, you can also find me on twitter, there is a link for that in the front page. I am also on Facebook, Grahame.Gardner and there is my podcast Adventuresindowsing.com which you can also find on ITunes and Stitcher.
JUDY -Brilliant, well thank you so much for being on
GRAHAME -that’s great, thank you very much
JUDY -thanks for listening if you like the information in this program, please go over to ITunes and leave a review, I would really appreciate it. If you would like more information about anything you have heard, you can go to my website on Spirituallycurious.com and click on podcast. I would also love to hear from you if you have got any suggestions for topics for guests or questions you would like me to ask one of my guest. Just go to spirituallycurious.com/contact and leave me a message, see you next time.